It would be nice to get a clear statement on this from OSR*, but at least github seems to keep the repository forwards around as long as no new repository with the same name is created:
That should keep most users’ repos/rosinstall files intact.
Ezra leads a lot of our infrastructure at PickNik, and as such he jumped in to help expedite the breakages we experienced when we lost permissions to the ROS Planning · GitHub org. Thank you Ezra.
Myself and others have been working behind the scenes to understand the actions of OSRA. Despite making some unclear and sudden decisions, OSRA has been very responsive in supporting the MoveIt project this week.
Thank you everyone for working through this together.
While it seems like the communication / rollout around this didn’t go so well, I want to say this is a good change and I’m glad to see it happening.
Why are we making the change without any of the process as outlined here: How It Works – OSRA? Was there meeting minutes that could be reviewed as to the internal rational for this change?
MoveIt and Nav2 are independent projects and are not governed by the OSRA (nor OSRF or the ROS 2 TSC before it). It has always been weird giving them ros.org subdomains and github orgs when they are not part of ROS (defining “part of ROS” as packages governed by the ROS TSC/TGC), because it gives people the incorrect impression that they are official OSRA projects. So either they needed to become official OSRA projects, or they needed to move to a new home and figure out their own governance.
Ideally/hopefully all the official ROS components (defined as those under the governance of OSRA) will also be consolidated into a single GitHub org. You can see from REP 2005 that there is currently shit all over the place.
We understand that our announcement regarding MoveIt and Nav2 has caused some confusion and concern. We here at OSRF apologize for the sudden changes, and the resulting disruptions that may have affected you. Although our discussions with the maintainers about these projects and their relationship with the OSRF/OSRA have been ongoing for some time, our communication with the community was not as clear as it should have been, which was compounded by some errors in the transition execution.
The MoveIt and Nav2 initiatives, led by PickNik and Open Navigation respectively, have always been maintained and managed independently from the core development efforts made by the Open Robotics team and those projects are not currently under the purview of the OSRA. The changes made were meant to reflect this.
We want to reassure everyone that OSRF, PickNik, and Open Navigation are jointly committed to the continued success of the ROS ecosystem, including both MoveIt and Nav2 as prominent and widely used capabilities. The principals from all three orgs are in active conversation now to (a) mitigate service disruptions; and (b) ensure a clear and durable relationship among the projects. We’ll keep everyone updated as we go.
If you have specific questions or concerns, please raise them here or DM me.
If you are concerned about good governance, shouldn’t the process matter, rather than just the outcome you happen to agree with?
I think we both agree - the communication (including community feedback) and execution of this change was lacking. I did not elaborate on that since it was already discussed a lot in this thread, but it was not handled well, as evidenced by several posts on this thread devolving into flamewar territory.
I do think there is a clear answer to “why this change didn’t follow OSRA process”, which is that these projects are not governed by the OSRA. However, it would be best for future projects planned for relocation to at least live up to the spirit of OSRA process, even if not strictly governed as such.
I do think there is a clear answer to “why this change didn’t follow OSRA process”, which is that these projects are not governed by the OSRA.
This is not really a rationale though – to the contrary, it may, at least in part, be what the concern is about. This reorg is institutionalizing something that many were probably not aware of prior to it.
I think most people would agree that “the ROS community” is not purely what the OSRF/OSRC directly worked on. Continueing that, it is rather immaterial that Nav2 and Moveit have been maintained outside of the OSRF, they are part of a larger Open Source robotics community. Therefore, I would like to emphasize that it is a choice whether OSRA is purely a successor to OSRF/OSRC, or whether it assumes a broader stewardship.
This choice doesn’t have to be made now, but it is something up for discussion, and I would also like to emphasize that if the OSRA choses not to do that, there is a bit of vacuum there. I don’t know how PickNick and Open Navigation view this, but I would like to encourage them to shape this public discussion.
The principals from all three orgs are in active conversation now to (a) mitigate service disruptions; and (b) ensure a clear and durable relationship among the projects. We’ll keep everyone updated as we go.
In the spirit of what’s written above, “updating us as we go” may not be conducive to the community many of us are trying to create here, and if I may be so bold, despite their long-standing and tremendous contributions, nav2 and moveit are not (at least not yet) owned by open navigation or picknick, respectively. Please make this as a public discussion.